Interview with RIGGS MORALES, A&R at Shady Records for Eminem, 50 Cent - Jan 12, 2005
"Everyone has the same story, “I’m from the street, shit is real, bla-di-bla, bla-di-bla”, but nobody has a unique perspective."
As director of A&R at Shady Records in New York, Rigo "Riggs" Morales works with artist including Eminem, 50 Cent and Obie Trice.
Here he tells us how Shady Records operates, what types of artists they look for, what he listens for in rappers’ demos, and more.
How did you get started in the music business and how did you become an A&R?
I started in the music business as a music editor at the Source magazine. I started from an internship in 1995, then worked my way up and ended up writing the unsigned hype column. I had wanted to be an A&R ever since I found out exactly what it is that they do.
When I got to the Source I made sure that I got hold of the unsigned hype column, because it’s the one column in the magazine where you get to really tell people, “This guy is unsigned, and you should sign him.” I’ve always had this thing for finding new artists.
I came across some exceptional artists whom since have established themselves in a major way, including Jewels Santana from Dip Set, David Banner, who has done really well both as a producer and an artist, and Eminem, who was my unsigned hype in 1997.
Then I worked at Goliath Artist Management, which is Eminem’s manager Paul Rosenberg’s company. Goliath basically became Shady Records and all of us who work here now handled managerial duties at that stage. I represented the producers Alchemist, Fred Wreck, Lord Finesse, Domingo, DJ Shok and Dame Grease.
What experiences have helped develop your skills as an A&R?
Working with producers definitely gave me an idea of how important the beat is to a song. When you’re trying to sell the beat, you’ve got to go by what the industry is looking for. I remember when the Neptunes started flourishing and people started asking whether I had any tracks with vocal hooks in them.
I had to step it up on that, because you’ve got to go with the times. You need to stay in tune with what’s going on, but not do exactly what everyone else is doing. Try to stay a step ahead or go the other way. That’s one of the things that has made Shady successful.
Is Shady Records an independent label?
It’s owned by Eminem and it’s an independent label in the independent sense, although Interscope is its mother label.
How many people work there?
About seven people work here. It’s pretty much the same people who work at Goliath too. Everyone is an expert at what they do and we have a tremendous work ethic, which is definitely part of the secret of how we manage to remain successful.
Are there any differences between Shady and major labels in how you work and the types of artists that you sign?
There’s definitely a difference; we don’t do what everybody else does, which means that we don’t sign something that’s going to be of the moment. I’ve seen lots of artists come up doing the independent ride and working a buzz for themselves, then getting signed to a major label and the label just throwing the record out in two months all based on one hit record, instead of taking the time to develop them.
We develop our artists for at least a year. We keep them in the dungeon, as I call it, and we feed them music, we see what they sound good with and what producers they work best with. We don’t chase after the latest hot producer: we’re looking for the new, the young, the unknown. Today’s unknowns are tomorrow’s superstars.
What acts are you currently working on?
Right now, we’re working on Obie Trice’s sophomore album and we just wrapped up 50 Cent’s follow-up, Stat Quo’s debut album, as well as Green Lantern’s album. Eminem just dropped “Encore”, and that’s basically it right now.
Which of your artists are you currently looking for songs for?
I’m always looking for beats for everyone I work with. I want something that’s left of centre, yet doesn’t go over people’s heads too much but really represents what an artist is about. I’m a big fan of aggressive beats.
How do you find new talent?
I find talent in many ways, but I mainly prefer to go out and look for it. I rely more on my street contacts than I do on some of the industry cats. I found one of the kids I’m working with now by word of mouth on the street. A friend of mine told me about him and the kid didn’t have any music, so I went directly to his block at three in the morning.
If I have to go to someone’s block to hear the kid spin, then so be it. Being in the position that I’m in, I have the liberty to do so. I also have the advantage of people throwing stuff at me, but nine times out of ten it’s not very good.
You have to go out and look for it. If you’ve heard people say that a particular neighbourhood in Minnesota is the worst neighbourhood in the world, there’s bound to be talent coming out of there, based on the fact that hardship breeds talent, in my personal opinion. Especially with hip-hop.
Do you accept unsolicited material?
I listen to every demo that comes through here and believe me, I get a lot of them. I listen quickly though; the first few seconds have to hit me. But I haven’t yet found anything from an unsolicited demo.
Do you find out about new artists via BDS and SoundScan?
No. Other labels do that, but we don’t. My BDS is the crack head that lives in that artist’s neighbourhood.
When listening to a rap artist’s demo, does the production matter at all or is it just about the rhyming skills?
I’ve got to hear what the dude sounds like first, I have to hear the guy’s perspective, whether he sounds unique and what it is that’s going to differentiate him from everyone else. It’s not a beat thing for me; it’s definitely a skills thing. At the end of the day, that MC, no matter how nice he is, has to know how to make records. It’s all about making a hit record, period.
Would you sign a rapper with no producer connections and no fan base purely on the basis of his or hers rapping skills?
Yes. In fact, I prefer to.
What is generally lacking in the artists that you come across but do not sign?
Personality and perspective. Everyone has the same story, “I’m from the street, shit is real, bla-di-bla, bla-di-bla”, but nobody has a unique perspective, a different way of seeing and saying things. I know you’re on the block and shit is hard, you got to hustle and do all this crazy shit, but give me another story about what happened on that corner.
Tell me about the stick-up that went wrong or the shoot-out where the wrong kid got hit. Give me something else, because having grown up where I grew up, I’ve seen it all. If you’re going to be a street rapper, I know there’s much more to say besides, “Yo, shit is real, I’ve hustled, bla-bla-bla.” Everybody’s told that story already. Hip-hop is thirty years deep into this shit already and we need new perspectives.
Should rap artists first make it big in their region by releasing independent records and then let the bigger labels find them?
That usually works with Southern artists. New York, on the other hand, is so small that, when you hear about a buzz, every label here that is in tune with the streets is going to know about it. With cities like Houston and New Orleans, it’s best for artists to go the independent route, because that’s how they pop up on the radar.
If you were an artist and were offered a record deal, by what means would you judge the A&R and the label offering you the deal?
Nowadays nobody really judges the A&R. Artists just look at the A&R and think that this is the guy who’s going to get them their deal, so whatever he wants they’re going to give it to him.
Most artists don’t take the time to study the label, and that’s a mistake. OK, you got a deal, but how do you know that the label is going to market you the way that you need to be marketed? How do you know that they’re going to try their best to get in tune with your audience? And who is your audience?
Many artists don’t ask questions like, does this label know what they’re doing? Do they have too many people on their roster? Are they going to put me on the back burner? At Shady we don’t pile them up; we probably sign one artist a year. We don’t have lots of artists waiting to come out.
As an A&R rep, how involved are you when it comes to negotiating the record contract with an artist whom you want to sign?
As far as negotiating contracts is concerned, the A&R’s and the attorneys in the legal department usually deal with that, but how involved I am depends on how big the deal is.
What input do you have on the repertoire and the productions?
From A to Z. I have to be there every session to make sure that the beat that has been picked works well for the artist. If my artist sounds bad, I’m not going to sit back and try to be cool just because it’s a hot producer. It’ has to sound good to the ear.
Sometimes I prefer to do some research, to play some stuff for people and ask them what they think, but I don’t play it for executives, I play it for street people. To get an opinion, I would rather play it at the barbershop than for some VP at some label.
Why do you think political rappers aren’t that successful at the moment?
There should definitely be more of them, for the sake of perspective. One of the reasons Kanye worked so well this year is because he presented a different perspective on hip-hop. People are growing up, not everything is about 24s and platinum chains. We need different perspectives.
Now, if you’re going to be conscious, you still have to make records that are going to appeal to today’s audience, who have quite a short attention span and just want to hear something hot. Therefore, if you’re going to preach, do it with a good song. If you’re a conscious rapper, make hot records that have politically or socially conscious undertones and you’ll be good.
That’s what NAS is doing now and that’s why he can honestly sit back and do that, because there’s an audience out there growing up along with hip-hop. The 30+ audience that listened to 3rd Bass and A Tribe Called Quest have grown up, they’ve got kids and they don’t want to hear about the throwbacks and the fittest and the ice and the 24s.
Hip-hop’s demographic is growing more and more. It’s beyond just the ballers and the drug dealers; now you have 9-to-5 working class people who need to be catered to. What you need are artists who can represent those people. A Tribe Called Quest left a void that hasn’t been filled yet. I’m just waiting and hoping to find the artist who represents that demographic and can therefore sell millions of records.
How much do you take radio into account when you are deciding whether or not to sign a new artist?
You have to take radio into account, because you have to be able to make the kinds of records that are going to get spins all day long. The tricky part is making sure that artists stay true to what they’re about and yet make radio records without feeling like they are selling themselves out, which can be difficult for some artists, but I think that’s possible.
How does the pressure to break with the first album affect the work of an A&R?
I used to have meetings with A&Rs who are no longer in those positions. Everyone’s gone. Nowadays, that pressure definitely affects your work, especially with the big labels. If the artist isn’t selling, that reflects on you and you’re likely to be looked at like you didn’t do your job.
Is urban music too driven by producers and not sufficiently by artists?
The beauty of it is that it’s driven by both producers and artists. Overall, the game is very producer-driven, because it has to be about the beat. It’s no longer about the lyricist; it’s a beat-driven game. You have to strike a 50-50 balance between hot beats and artists who can really be themselves over those beats.
If artists share the costs of making albums with record labels when these costs are recouped from their royalties, do you think they should also have joint ownership of the masters?
I’ve rarely heard of artists who own their masters, and certainly not rap artists. If you are at an advantage and you can actually negotiate the rights to your masters, then by all means try your best, but that’s only going to happen if you can cover all the costs and you only need distribution.
What kinds of artists and genres would you like to see gain more popularity?
I’d like to see lyricists come to the forefront. Nobody is lyrical anymore and nobody is an MC anymore; people just rap. I would like to see MCs move to the forefront and for that to happen they have to make big records. That’s why Eminem works so well, because Eminem is an MC who makes big records. The same goes for Jay-Z, who is, at the end of the day, an MC.
Politically or socially conscious rap is also something that hip-hop needs right now, although it does depend on how it’s done. You’ve got to make social consciousness cool. That’s why I wish Lauryn Hill would make a hip-hop record, because she’s one of the few artist who could pull that off and still put any MC out on his ass.
Hip-hop could use a sense of humour. Everybody is so serious and no one has ever taken the time to see that there’s a market out there for a sense of humour. But it has to be done properly, and I don’t see every label running after comical rap artists. Humour is entertainment and you have to be able to entertain people, because entertainment is the cornerstone of this whole business.
How do you view the current music business climate?
It still needs work. It’s slowly getting back to what it used to be in terms of sales, but people are definitely holding on to their pocketbooks a lot more tightly. No one takes chances. Most labels want to see that it’s a proven product before they do anything with it, that is, they want a foolproof plan before they invest any money.
What has been the greatest moment of your music career?
The greatest moment of my music career has yet to happen. I’m still young, and I’d like to find more 50 Cents and another Eminem.
What do you see yourself doing in five to ten years’ time?
I would still like to be in the music business, involved with releasing authentic hip-hop product that goes beyond music.
Interviewed by Kimbel Bouwman
Read On ...
* Shady A&R Marc Labelle on how 50 Cent exploited the mixtape circuit
* Aftermath producer DJ Khalil on aiding Eminem's 'Recovery'
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